Did you say dog park?

More often than they should, pit bull owners wonder about the dog park issue, finding themselves explaining to others that their dog is not a "killing machine," it is not "one of those pit bulls" and there is no reason that their dog can’t enjoy off leash time with unknown dogs. Some will even insist that "you only add to the misconception toward this breed when you don't allow your friendly pit bull to go to the dog park.” After all, these people argue that it is all about "how we raise them" and providing socialization is the key to no problem dogs. Unfortunately, that’s not true.

Dog aggression in our own dogs should not be a problem. Good management and knowledge prevent trouble. Responsible and caring pit bull owners have done their homework and know what to expect from the breed. This breed's genetic traits involve dog aggression, to varying degrees. Even the most well socialized pit bull can one day decide that other dogs are not play buddies. It happens most often when the dog reaches maturity between two and three years of age, and it can happen without apparent reason.

Here are some good articles for basic breed information:

http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html
http://www.realpitbull.com/fight.html

Because of the breed's background, it is unfair to expect dogs to behave the way we want them to when it comes to dog aggression and dog to dog relationships. We set our dogs up for failure when we decide to let them off leash in a public place and allow them to romp with other dogs. Dog parks are a place where people like to chit chat with each other, paying very little attention to what happens around their dogs. Posturing, body language, subtle looks and even vocalization are often misunderstood or overlooked by dog owners. Even when dogs let us know what is about to happen we might not see what is happening until it is too late. Most dog owners have no idea of what body language means, and don’t know how to intervene if things go wrong. They panic, scream, yell, and hit the attacking dog; all of which often just makes things worse. A fight between two dogs can be hard enough to stop; now imagine a fight among 4 or 5 of them. In fights like these, pets and even people can be seriously injured.

Dog parks are also a place where unknown dogs are present. We don't know if they’re fully vaccinated or in good health. They can be sick and our dogs can get ill as well.

We don't know if they are truly friendly dogs or if they may be aggressive. Everybody's dog is friendly, according to their owners. When the "friendly" dog decides to snap at ours, a fight starts.

Who is going to be blamed for that fight? Will it be the pit bull or the cute little fluffy dog? The answer is obvious.

Here is the story of one accident at a dog park, involving a pit bull.:

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm

Below is an article about a pit bull named Nettie that attacked a police horse, in San Francisco, in 2003. Nettie was let off leash at a public park by her irresponsible owner. The dog did nothing wrong, but she was set up for failure by the person who should have protected her. Nettie belonged to an SPCA volunteer and she was often taken to senior centers to comfort the elderly. Nettie was a good dog. This pretty pit bull female paid the price for her owner’s ignorance and irresponsibility with her life. Many dogs have lost their lives the same way, due to the same kind of irresponsibility. It took her life for her owner to "get it.” Like most situations of this sort, the events that ultimately resulted in Nettie’s unfair death were totally preventable.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/11/23/horse23.DTL


Each time a pit bull is allowed to harm another pet all pit bull owners and their dogs suffer. One common defensive reaction of dog park lovers is "the dog is mine and it is nobody's business where I take it.” This is not true. It is every pit bull owner's business as well. We are surrounded by BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) all over the Country. The news media report dog to dog attacks or dog to cat/cow/horse/sheep attacks almost every day, and with the same attention as if Osama Bin Laden had been captured. Reporters often compare human aggression to animal aggression. How many times do we hear "it was a dog but it could have been a child"?

It is ridiculous but it happens every day. “There goes another vicious pit bull attacking an innocent dog or cat!” What happens after a pit bull attacks another dog in the neighborhood or at the local dog park? It is like we suddenly own wild animals that have no right to exist. Our friendly neighbor suddenly stops talking to us and no longer lets her children come around our dog. The person we used to walk our dog with is no longer available because she fears for her pet. The two men down the street no longer come and pet our dog when we walk by their homes or rush into the house if they have their dogs with them. People ask for a ban. We did not change and our dog is the same as always but this is the result of one mistake, caused by someone who obviously did not care about the rest of us. It is a sad situation to be in.

This breed doesn't need any more accidents, we can't afford them. We are in this situation thank to those who failed their own dogs. When a whole breed suffers because of someone's action it is our business as well. No doubt on that.

Vet bills aren't cheap, emotions can be overwhelming, the guilt stays, so why to risk it? It isn't fair that only one breed is targeted when dogs of other breeds have killed or attacked other dogs. Today, a dog behaving like a dog has become a sin. Fair or not that is how the situation is and every pit bull owner needs to understand it.

The point of socialization is for a dog to have positive experiences with other dogs. When people take their dogs, perhaps puppies, to a park and something happens, they are responsible for the consequences. A young dog that is attacked for no reason won't be so willing to be friendly the next time it meets an unknown dog. An experience like that is a bad start and can often lead to problems in the future. There are no guarantees on what can happen at a dog park because dog parks are often full of different dogs with different personalities and tolerance levels. Even an easy going adult dog can change its approach after an attack. It is hard enough for a dog of this breed to tolerate other dogs and it is a big mistake to contribute to bad experiences. Dogs should always rely on us to defend them--the trust factor is important. We are responsible for protecting our dogs from harm. A dog that has no choice but to defend itself loses its trust in the owner and knows that in the future it needs to take care of itself. It then becomes fearful of other dogs and not so willing to behave like a well-balanced dog that was socialized in the appropriate way.

How can we socialize around other dogs then? Good question. Socialization is a must but it has to be done with common sense and in a controlled environment. Perhaps a friend has a mellow dog of the opposite sex and he/she is willing to let the dogs play together. Both owners should know that there is the possibility of a scrap and will intervene immediately and with the appropriate tools/techniques. Both owners will watch their dogs closely and never leave them unsupervised.

Every pit bull owner should have a breaking stick available, even when on a walk, hidden somewhere. It is a quick and effective way to break a hold.

What is a breaking stick and why it is an important tool to have:
http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

Some information on how to break up a fight:
http://www.pbrc.net/breakfight.html

Obedience classes are an option too. In obedience classes, the dogs are leashed and can learn to control themselves in the presence of other dogs. It is not necessary for a pit bull to be dog friendly, but it is necessary for us to help them learn to control natural behaviors. Dogs that are exposed to this kind of environment can learn to behave with some time and work.

The local feedstore/petstore is another way to socialize our dogs, because they are another place where dogs are leashed. It’s important to remember that it doesn’t mean we don't need to pay attention to the surroundings. Respect the comfort level of your dog and move away from other dogs if necessary. Face to face interactions can quickly end badly, even when both dogs are leashed.

Those who are still convinced that a pit bull belongs to a dog park would benefit from reading these links. Their dogs and all of us will benefit as well.Please, don't set your dog up for failure.

http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html
http://www.pitbullpress.com/ARTICLES/DOGPARK.html

Excellent post Marty !!!

I wouldn't even take my JRT's to a dog park !! They're too feisty and don't realize their size.

Great Post Marty!!

Regardless of what breed of dog I have I wouldn't take any dogs there. I thinking taking any dog to the dog park is putting it at risk for picking up some sort of parasite or disease or some sort of health related issue and is NOT worth the RISK... just my humble opinion.

Maybe this should be a "sticky"

Good stuff.

I think this is the point I would like to get across...It truly should not have anything to do with the breed of the dog...but to the atmosphere around it...Any dog can get caught up in an incident that begins in a crowded area with many dogs and irresponsible owners. The health issues are a large concern, no way to check records of the dogs being brought into the park, not to mention fleas! I trust my dog with others, but I am also aware he could finish what someone else starts, and it is never some other dogs fault. I try my best to protect Levi without falling into the trap that pits are dangerous....it is the owners and situations that make it dangerous!

Marty - all I can say is a BIG THANK you for this very well put together article. I have talked about dog parks and my feelings on them and people don't listen. In my opinion dog parks are law suits waiting to happen. I will not ever for one second put one of my dogs in a position when they might have the opportunity to react and hurt another dog. I think those of us with bully breeds just can't have the same mind set as someone with a Golden retriever. Totally different genetics. No dog parks here - You put every other dog at risk and the breed in harm's way if you think you have done all the right things and will override genetics in all situations.

The biggest lesson I ever learned is to not say NEVER. As soon as you do they will prove you wrong. I don't understand why people think they are above the law of averages and genetics. This is just not totally a training issue as all the training in the world does not change genetics.

Yes PLEASE make this a sticky!!!

I worry about any time someone uses the owrd NEVER, but ALWAYS is also a dangerous word, or that something WILL happen. Aside from being mind readers, we truly have no idea what will happen in the future. I believe arraying to the side of caution is a truly safe approach.
As for pits being more aggressive than other dogs, I think it is a stereo type.... I have delta with many breeds of dogs threw rescue and shelter work, I have had less issue with pits than most others....I think the problem comes in when the fight actually breaks out, many dogs will get tired and back down, many can't back up their bad disposition with actual muscle, our boys can finish what others start. And I don't think there is any one of us out there, with even a touch of redneck that can't finish what someone else starts.

Pit Bulls were bred to fight other dogs, that's a fact, and that bred into them is not something that has just disappeared. I don't know that they're more aggressive than other dogs, as there are many other breeds out there that are aggressive...even individual dogs that are, but pit bulls are known for being dog aggressive and are quite capable of finishing what another dog starts. Not every pit bull is dog aggressive, but there are plenty that are. Plus, there are pit bulls that are fine one minute and then "turn on" the next. As the saying goes...do not trust your pit bull not to fight. Something can happen and that's the bottom line. For every pit bull that gets in a fight in public, that's another nail in these dog's coffins, adding to the breed bias and adding to BSL.

I'm not uneducated about these dogs, but we can feed the reputation they have been given if we work at it. Responsibility is the key to having fewer accidents headlining our papers. The dogs aren't the issue, the owners are....forums that sensationalize the aggressive behavior of this breed, and use dog fighting terms, give this breed a very bad name....yes these dogs are large, and strong, yes they are capable of causing damage, but the good qualities are just as deep. Loyalty being only one. Generations of pits were bred to be DA. Absolutely. But dog fighting is now illegal! It has been for awhile now and many breeders are breeding other qualities into these dogs. I realize many really don't believe that is right, they believe in matching dogs to see how game they are, and are proud if they show game qualities. If they will "Turn On" or not. But there are some of us out here that have them for pets. They live in our homes and play with our children. We use a great measure of responsibility when dealing with our dogs and the public, because we know that one unfortunate incident can cause an issue....but we don't dwell on the old school reputation that makes these dogs popular to many. Changing their reputation might be better than dwelling on it....and use responsible ownership.

So you are saying that DA is bred into APBT's right? so if something can be bred into a dog it can over years be bred out.....What I am saying is I really don't feed into the hype. I know the history and I know to assess a dog on an individual level. But I choose not to use a negative profile when dealing with these dogs. We have had this discussion before on other chat forums, so I know we will have to agree to disagree. The one thing we do agree on is responsible dog ownership and I respect your opinions on those merits.

Absolutely! I also adopt out to people with pit experience. I am not a large rescue...I usually have no more than 2 rescues in my care at a time. I have adopted out many pits and have a handful of adoptive owners that are now personal friends after the adoptions. I have a DA dog in my household that I must crate and rotate, and go into detail about the changes that occur during the maturing process. Angus leaves that door open to the ways to deal with those issues. I concentrate on ways to keep a dog fight from happening, but do cover ways of separating two if a fight breaks out. Many times I only adopt out a dog to a one dog household and only adopt out to homes wanting pets. No show dogs, no hunting dogs, no pulling dogs, just good old pets. I have an extensive adoption application and I check every reference, and I also have a adoption contract. There are no guarantees but I try to make good sound decisions. But please understand, I would go over each of these things if I were adopting out chi's.....a dog is a dog and an adoption is an adoption. The only differences I make is to the individual dogs personality, and if a dog is DA, it must go to an only dog home with an experienced owner. If it is a deaf dog it goes to a home with experience with deaf issues, if the dog is small, it goes to a home with children over 12 years of age.....Every dog is different, but by personality not breed.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I'm not talking about feeding a reputation, the dogs are what they are. Yes, pit bulls have good qualities that are just as deep. No one is denying that. They're wonderful, loving dogs, just not always loving toward other animals. Hell, many terriers are not good with other animals, that's just a fact, it's nothing sensationalized. Yes, dog fighting is now illegal, but it still happens illegal or not. Dog fighting has been illegal for a long time, but there are still pit bulls that want to scrap. Yes, breeders are breeding other qualities into them, but there are still pit bulls that are DA despite that. Even AmBullies, who've purposely been bred away from DA, and the majority mixed with goodness knows what, can still turn on. AmStaffs, who haven't been bred for dog fighting in a great many yrs., can still be DA. My dogs are pets and pets only, but I still understand, despite one being an AmBully (a huge majority of her being AmStaff) and my other dog being a rescue APBT (he was a failed foster, so I don't know all of his background, just what I was told about the dam and sire), that one day they could turn on. I once had a pit bull/Lab mix that I was fostering that wanted to kill every other animal in sight. I'm not sure if it's what you were saying, but a dog that turns on is not game, nor are DA dogs game. There is only one true way to prove gameness and that's the illegal way. Dogs that are strictly pets can turn on. I don't think anyone is dwelling on their reputation, you either have a DA pit bull or you don't, and it's wise to keep in mind they can just one day turn on out of the blue. Knowing these things does not mean someone is dwelling on old school reputations, it just means that they understand what can happen. Changing how a breed is bred will change a breed after a while, but changing how one thinks about the breed will not...they are what they are, despite what one thinks.

Of course things can be bred out of a dog, but something that's been bred in a dog for many, many yrs. can take many, many yrs. to breed out, and then again, you can always have throw backs. Pit bulls having the possibility of being DA is not hype, it is fact. Saying that is not negative. Dogs breeds all have different qualities, just because a breed is known for something, doesn't mean it's negative. Greyhounds love to chase and take down what they think is prey, something that was bred into them for a great many yrs. Greyhounds can, and many times will, chase and kill a cat. They're just going on what was bred into them. Now it's not a good idea to let your Greyhound chase and kill your neighbor's cats, but that's something that we, as owners, look out for and control. Pit bulls were bred to fight (though don't get me wrong, I don't like dog fighting and am not dwelling on old school reputations). Of course you don't want your pit bull fighting other dogs, so you do all you can to manage your dog and keep it from harming other dogs if it's DA. Using a less negative profile does not change what a dog is, whether you're judging it from an individual basis or a breed basis.


Bleh, I think I've repeated myself over and over. I'm sorry, it's late and it's been a long day. My brain is officially fried, lol, so please excuse any repetitions. I think it's time for me to go to bed.

{Generations of pits were bred to be DA. Absolutely. But dog fighting is now illegal! It has been for awhile now and many breeders are breeding other qualities into these dogs. }

Just because dog fighting is illegal does not mean anyone told the dogs that. In the past their gameness is exactly what made them so popular now it is their downfall. Being prepared and training are an absolute necessity BUT for anyone to thinks that they can control genetic urges with just training and preparedness is not thinking clearly. I know I am not strong enough to break up a dog fight unless I had a lot of help. I am not sure even the biggest strongest man could do it by himself.

But to suggest that we are capable of breaking up a fight and that we train so we can let them run with other dogs does not make logical sense. It only takes one time and for every ONE of those ONE times the dogs are again brought to the media attention and another nail goes in their coffin. Are you saying you think it is ok to take that chance??? I think some of this is founded in very good intentions to PROOF the dogs are safe - point is they are not. I do not think bully breeds belong at a dog park at anytime with other dogs. That to me is the only way to guarantee the dogs will never have a fight - I don't think any bully breed should every be at a dog park with other dogs.

I don't say that because I don't like the breed. I love the pits and their gameness - I love watching them do Schutzhund - they are truly funny - The little guys just don't have an off button. But I would never allow one to be with someone else's dogs and take a chance that a fight could break out. I think we owe it to the public to keep everyone safe.

I understand what you are saying, and am oh so aware that dogs can be DA....I just choose not to dwell on those qualities when discussing this breed. There are so many other amazing qualities to point out. And I truly believe that all this is a matter of responsible dog ownership. Be it a Gray hound, a pit bull , a rottweiler, a chi, or a cocker spaniel, it is our responsible to be in control of our dog at all times. Some dog owners feed on the fact that they have a "DA" dog or a "game" dog or that they have a "pit bull", I have a dog, his name is Levi, he is around 65 lbs+. He truly doesn't know he is supposed to be tough, we fondly refer to him as our ADHD dog. Yes he is pit bull. Yes we use great care when taking him out with others, yes he could probably finish an altercation if some other dog started it, but the realization that he will go looking for a fight is slim. Am I going to take that chance and ignore my responsibility as a dog owner to keep both him and the general public safe....NO! But I also don't hang a sign around his neck that says," I was bred to fight, I am unstable, be afraid of me!" I hang a tag that read CGC around his neck and promote responsible dog ownership.

---------- Post added at 12:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 PM ----------

Just because dog fighting is illegal does not mean anyone told the dogs that. In the past their gameness is exactly what made them so popular now it is their downfall.Absolutely true. Being prepared and training are an absolute necessity BUT for anyone to thinks that they can control genetic urges with just training and preparedness is not thinking clearly. I never said you could, I said I choose to aviod putting my dog in a position to be in one in the first place. And I said that although my dog can usually finish a fight, he is not prone to LOOKING FOR A FIGHT.I know I am not strong enough to break up a dog fight unless I had a lot of help. I am not sure even the biggest strongest man could do it by himself.

But to suggest that we are capable of breaking up a fight and that we train so we can let them run with other dogs does not make logical sense. I do not allow mine to be loose with other peoples dogs. I am not pro dog park! I leash when out of the house and avoid serious crowds. It only takes one time and for every ONE of those ONE times the dogs are again brought to the media attention and another nail goes in their coffin. Are you saying you think it is ok to take that chance??? Absolutely not, I am saying i choose to look at my dog as a dog first, and i believe that all dog owners should use responsible dog ownership practices!I think some of this is founded in very good intentions to PROOF the dogs are safe - point is they are not. I do not think bully breeds belong at a dog park at anytime with other dogs. That to me is the only way to guarantee the dogs will never have a fight - I don't think any bully breed should every be at a dog park with other dogs.We absloutely agree! But there are many dogs out there that should not taken to a dog park. I don't judge that on breed. You cant say you oppose BSL and promote it yourself. And sayig a Pit Bull should not be at a dog park is singling out a breed. Dog parks are just a bad idea.

I don't say that because I don't like the breed. I love the pits and their gameness - I love watching them do Schutzhund - they are truly funny - The little guys just don't have an off button. But I would never allow one to be with someone else's dogs and take a chance that a fight could break out. I think we owe it to the public to keep everyone safe. I also don't think we should take a chance and am not a fan of Schutzhund as a sport. I believe this training should be used only in a working dog environment, I have PETS! And work toward that basic mentality, always knowing that the responsibility of their reputation is mine. I never set them up to fail.

I think that Shutzhund is fine, but the individual dog should have the proper temperament for it. I feel that is for people who know how to read a dog well and how to assess temperament properly. The dog should know when it's time for work and when it's not.

I think that you're treating your dogs much the same way we do ours and that you're being responsible just like we are, but you take it on an individual dog basis, to where we think of it on a breed basis. As long as everyone is being responsible, I don't think there's a problem.

RubyS - Schutzhund is all about obedience - to the track to the handler and to the task. A dog that can't pass tracking and obedience can't achieve the Schutzhund title. The beginning BH in Schutzhund is a temperament test so you will find few dogs involved in schutzhund that are not stable in temperament. It is all about the handler having the control to call the dog off the attack. There is not more stable temperament than a Schutzhund dog. At least they are taught when to bite - and MUST have an off button. Anything less is too nervy and out of control. I hope you get to see in in person sometime and have someone explain what is happening. It is awesome.

Oh I know D4e, I was talking about people thinking about doing Schutzhund with their dog. Not every dog is cut out for it...that's what I meant by saying that the dog should have the proper temperament for it. It's also what I meant by saying that it should be for people who know how to assess a dog's temperament. For example, a stable dog would be a good candidate for Schutzhund, an unstable dog wouldn't.